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By Paula TRACY, InDepthNH.org
CONCORD – Carroll County Fish and Game Commissioner Susan Price denied she had an affair with the department during Monday’s evidentiary hearing regarding a complaint filed against her by Fish and Game Capt. Kevin Jordan. The Human Resources Director was spoken to regarding a personnel matter that violated state law.
Price’s attorney said even if such a conversation had taken place, what was reportedly said would not have risen to the level of a crime.
It’s the first test of a state law that prohibits Fish and Game commissioners from getting involved in the department’s personnel matters, although they can file complaints with the executive director.
The evidentiary hearing is held at Fish and Game headquarters and is similar to a trial. Now, 10 other invaluable members of the Fish and Game Commission will serve on the jury and make a decision on May 21.
Assistant Attorney General Thomas Velardi serves as the hearing officer, or essentially the judge.
Jordan said the entire incident could have been avoided if Price had acknowledged what she said to human resources administrator Deirdre “Dee” Grimes and apologized.
But Price and her attorney, Bill Woodbury, both said that conversation never happened.
Jordan’s complaint alleges that on December 19, 2023, Commissioner Price violated RSA 206:4-b, I by discussing personnel matters involving Jordan, a classified employee, and another department employee, also a classified employee, with classified employees. Grimes.
“The Fish and Game Commission will determine whether a violation of RSA 206:4-b has occurred and, if so, whether recommendations should be made to the Governor and the Executive Council for appropriate disciplinary action, or whether the Commission should issue a public warning, according to the Commission’s website Called “condemn”.
Jordan said it was a “sad” day that the Fish and Game commissioner could call department staff “liars.”
Jordan, who has been with the department for 33 years, said he has maintained a good record. This was not a personnel hearing, he said.
“Whichever day it happens, I’ll welcome it. It’s not a setting… This forum is for deciding whether that law was violated. I think we’ve made that clear. I think it has a lot to do with pride, personal feelings and motivations Relationship, it’s sad. The saddest part of this whole thing is that I’m going to leave this hearing feeling the saddest about how my staff were treated when we came here and called our. It’s really sad when employees are ‘liars’…” Jordan said.
“Ladies and gentlemen, it’s sad, but there’s no need to do it. There’s no reason to do it. I respect more people who come in and say, ‘You know what, I crossed a line and I’m sorry.’ I made a mistake. I Now I understand, I wouldn’t do it again. I would have walked away. That’s not what happened here. I didn’t do that. Do. I don’t respect people like that. That speaks volumes about character and it’s just sad.
Jordan held up a book and said, “No one should be above the law.”
The burden of proof lies with Jordan, and the commission’s jury does not need to agree on its findings.
Woodbury of Laconia served as Price’s attorney and Jordan served as his own attorney.
Grimes took the stand to explain what she said happened. She said she ran into Price after picking up her mail in the hallway of Fish and Game headquarters, where he was between meetings in December.
She said Price thanked her for sending her a “get well” card after her recent surgery, and then Price said, “I heard the director hasn’t been reappointed yet and it’s done in August,” referring to the executive Director Scott Mason, whose one-year term as one of four Fish and Game directors ends in August, has publicly said he will not seek re-election.
“I said ‘yes,'” said Grimes, who told Price that Mason made this known to senior staff at a recent management meeting.
“I asked her, ‘What’s going to happen next?’ And she (Price) mentioned Senate President Jeb Bradley, a Wolfboro Republican, ‘If need be, she could will have to serve as interim (director) and it may take some time to find a replacement as the board is fully finalized in August. She also said that the matter with the colonel and Lisa (another classified employee mentioned) was working together from that point on. Not resolved, things will change sooner or later. Things have gone on long enough and this should never be allowed to happen, she said again that the issue has never been resolved and should be addressed by the current director. Bradley, but I don’t remember the context of that. At that time, Mark Beauchesne from Public Affairs came right out of the office where we were standing to direct questions about Susan’s vehicle outside. conversation,” Grimes said.
Lisa Jordan is married to Colonel Jordan and also works for Fish and Game Law Enforcement.
Bochner also testified and said he remembered seeing the two women talking that day, which Grimes said happened. But he said he had no idea what the subject of their conversation was.
Grimes said the explanation she derived from her conversation with Price was that “someone wasn’t going to be working upstairs,” referring to Fish and Game Law Enforcement, which Jordan commanded.
Grimes said she spoke with Director Mason after the break and mentioned her conversation with Price to him.
During the conversation, “I said ‘I’m kind of shocked,'” Mason asked her to write it up in a report the next day or the day after.
Grimes later said that when she learned that the colonel knew about the conversation between the two women, she went to Jordan’s office “pretty upset and wondering what was going to happen to me and what was going to happen next, because I was really I love working here,” Grimes said.
Price’s attorney, Woodbury, asked about Grimes’ conversations with Mason.
“I came here to talk to him about something else, and then this issue came up,” Grimes said of the encounter with Price.
She said Mason learned about the law regarding committee members interfering with staff, reviewed it with her and asked her to provide a written statement of her conversations with Price, which she did.
Attorney Woodbury said that assuming this conversation did take place (his client denies that it ever happened), did Grimes believe at the time that Commissioner Price was seeking her help as human resources director?
“No,” Grimes said.
“Did Commissioner Price ask you to be involved?”
“No,” Grimes said.
“Did she ask you to engage in an actual process with the colonel and another employee regarding personnel matters? Was this just an offhand comment?” Woodbury asked.
“Yes,” Grimes said.
Woodbury also presented a written statement from Fish and Game Commission Chairman Eric Stoll.
These are contemporaneous notes he recorded during a conversation with Mason on December 28, 2023, which indicate that he heard that Price had a discussion with Grimes and that his opinion was “1: She (Price ) will remove director Mason, who will be named interim director soon. ” Woodbury asked Grimes if that was an accurate description of what was being said.
“No,” Grimes said.
“So … if she had the ability to do that … but she never sought to take any action while she was commissioner, right?” Woodbury said.
Grimes agreed.
Woodbury then read another passage from Stoll’s notes, which the judge called “fair game,” in which Stoll wrote: “Then she will fire Colonel Jordan for his nepotism with Lisa Jordan. “
Woodbury asked Grimes if that accurately reflected what was in her report?
“Not really,” Grimes said. “My reports indicate that I think something is going to happen to one or the other of them…”
“But that’s just speculation, right?” Woodbury said. “In fact, Commissioner Price never said anything like that, right…?”
“No. It’s not that she’s going to fire them, no,” Grimes said.
When redirected, Jordan asked Grimes if she was worried about the repercussions that would come to her if she didn’t testify about the matter.
She said yes, she was not summoned.
“I thought I might lose my position,” Grimes said. “I don’t know if the committee or my colleagues will look down upon me,” Grimes said through tears.
When asked why she decided to come, Grimes said: “It was the right thing to do.”
About four years ago, Price was nominated by Gov. Chris Sununu to serve on the commission as a representative for Carroll County.
Price is a retired hydrogeologist who moved to New Hampshire in 1992 to serve as director of environmental consulting for Liberty Mutual. an advocate of this approach.
The Fish and Game Commission, which oversees the appropriate use of fish, game and related wildlife in the state, has the responsibility to recommend or oppose bills in the Legislature, with one representative from each county and one member representing the coast.
The commission is nominated rather than elected and is responsible for setting seasonal limits for fishing and hunting, among other duties.
Its rules are very different from those under which most state departments operate.
Woodbury said the law cited has not yet been used and is unclearly defined, potentially affecting First Amendment rights and due process rights.
Woodbury urged the committee to take no action.
Both parties noted that the parameters of the quasi-judicial process did not allow basic matters related to personnel matters to be part of the proceedings and focused solely on the committee’s interference with department employees.
Paula Tracy is a senior writer at InDepthNH.org and has been a reporter in New Hampshire for 30 years.
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